The Kaiser Permanente Administrative Fellowship: Justin Moon

<p>good evening everyone my name is rangi Shaw with the fellowship review through the American Journal of healthc care strategy and today I am thrilled to have Justin Moon from Kaiser Permanente as our guest hi Justin welcome to the podcast hi thank you so much for having [Music] me yeah absolutely absolutely well we are so excited to chat with you and highlight the Kaiser fellowship and so I'm just going to kick it right to you so why don't you go ahead and tell our listeners a little bit about yourself your educational background your journey um kind of how you ended up at this Fellowship sure yeah so my story is a little bit long so bear with me um I was born in Soul South Korea and I moved to the United States at the age of eight I grew up in Chino Hills California for for quite some time and then I lived in Orange County for a little bit uh when I graduated from high school I joined the the Army as a medical laboratory technician and then worked eventually as a lab tech lab manager and then a patient services manager for a little bit um and then a recruiter for a bit um I got my bachelor's degree completely online while I was active duty so I was a full-time student and a full-time Soldier and then while I was a recruiter I figured that I wanted to go my masters in health administration because of my past experiences as a lab manager um so I decided to to apply to a bunch of uh Master's programs that make sure programs and I ultimately went with Columbia University's mha program so while I was there I uh I I figured that I had a good amount of pro provider side experience and management experience but what I was lacking was in was in payer industry and so um I decided to do my summer internship and then eventually a year-long internship at elevan Health otherwise known as Anthem um and I was I was there for a little bit and then as my program was uh at the midpoint I realized that I wanted to do an administrative Fellowship um and so applied to maybe about five or six fellowships and then ultimately decided to go with Kaa permanente's administrative fellowship and that's where I'm at right now very happy and very blessed to be where I am yeah absolutely what an incredible journey um I want to take a step back um going back to Colombia you know uh for a lot of our viewers are even undergraduate students and so any specific thing that really Drew you to Colombia's program yeah so when I was in the Army I was uh stationed in Texas Oklahoma Missouri Korea um and then Riverside California and I grew up in California again so I wanted to experience living on the East Coast um obviously the reputation of the school had a little bit to do with it my mom was uh was very heavily pushing for Colombia so that's that's what ultimately drove me to that decision got it got it no it's an incredible school and an incredible program um I have interacted with so many interns um you know that come to UCLA health um from from Colombia and it's an incredible program and it really prepares you I think um for fellowships as well as the workforce so thank you for sharing that um and I want to talk a little bit about your um internship that you did during your graduate program could you give us a little bit of insight into what that internship was like what kind of projects you did and and maybe you know what was your favorite project um that you learned a lot from during that uh during your time at your internship when I was there when I got there initially it was supposed to be a three-month program and so I spent the first three months working on a project revolving around data visualization for uh for prior authorizations um the the scope of the project was to reduce uh reduce any inefficiencies within the process of gaining prior authorizations for for patients needing it um while increasing kind of accuracy of the system and stuff like that so in the end we actually found we ended up finding $6 Million worth of savings um both on the patients end and the Enterprise and so it was a really cool project to be a part of after that my manager he's such a great manager uh he gave me the opportunity to stay on his team and work uh for the remainder of the school year and so when I got that opportunity I was placed on his team and his team was revolving around Automation and AI so that's what started my journey within Healthcare Automation and Healthcare Ai and um we were responsible for kind of screening ideas that that different Associates had and um seeing what we what we can Implement at the company um did that for a bit and then I worked with a bunch of uh project managers uh working on change management stuff and and different stuff but it was it was a really good experience to be a part of that team yeah absolutely no it sounds like it and and it seems like you had um a lot of experiences so then moving along I know earlier you said you know halfway through your graduate program is when you realized you wanted to do an administrative Fellowship so um what kind of made you make that decision um and you know you also said that you applied to five or six um so could you also talk about you know how did you narrow down your five to six you know personally I applied to 12 and I always tell people that that was too much and if I were to go back I would do a solid seven to 10 um but yeah yeah what made you pick um you know going down the administrative Fellowship route and then more so uh moreover how did you kind of come up with your list of five to six sure so what originally made me want to do an administrative Fellowship was the fact that I was a i i was in middle management I I managed the department for a bit and uh when I was there it was it was in the the the Whirlwind of the Daily Business right of the lab so how do you how do you make it run what are the issues that are coming up what what issues do you have with Staffing with supplies stuff like that right and so during my studies I realized that I was lacking that higher kind of level of um of knowledge of what goes on within a medical center and so that's what drove me to do an administrative Fellowship I wanted a a a a broader view of the the um Health Systems Operations um I applied to five or six like I mentioned and specifically for kaisa Permanente the reason why why I went with this one is because it was well it three different reasons one it was the most familiar to me because it's a it's an HMO model it's a closed system so it's members uh members getting care from from the phans and that's how it is in the military um you have to be within that system to get that care um two it's such a unique model that's difficult to be replicated um the the provider payer the different entities that are within the the business um there's a lot to learn from that three because it's such a big business and and there's so many different uh Realms just within Kaiser Permanente there's so much maneuverability and I'm the type to kind of uh get tired of things quickly and so um you know if that day comes where where I'm I may be kind of bored of doing one thing then um I have the flexibility to switch into a different area of the business and and and try something new yeah no absolutely um so then kind of jumping right into uh what was the interview process for you like um you know did you go through first round second round um what were maybe some things surprising to you or some things that were challenging um and the reason I specifically ask about the interview process is creating the transparency around Fellowship interviews I think um often times candidates don't really know um you know what their what what the interview process is going to be like and it can be very rigorous so could you talk about kind of what that was um what that was like for you sure yeah so the interview process for me was um I I like interviews I I'm I'm one of the weird ones where where I like interviews so it wasn't too bad I I will say the struggle that I had during interviews was um knowing how detailed to get within the case questions so for a lot of administrative fellowships I've I've found out that um they're behav they're more qualitative cases instead of quantitative so you're not doing direct math or anything and so you know when you're coming up with strategies and tactics for for um whatever the case may be you know how detailed do you want to get how granular do you want to get into that or do you want to give like a higher level overview of your thoughts um I think at the end of the day what I've realized is that um interviewers want to know how you think how you strategize and how you put that together and how you present that right and so the granular details of these cases don't really matter too much um other than that it was three rounds of interviews one over the phone one virtual um via teams and then one in person um for for the final round overall I would say that it's a very tough interview process compared to other positions uh I've never seen anything like administrative Fellowship interviews um but it was a good experience definitely help me grow a lot yeah no I would agree with that completely I think um often times these these interview questions are really trying to see how you work well under pressure and if curveballs are thrown at you it's not so much finding the right answer or the exact number but more so of like how will you handle a random situation being thrown at you and being in healthcare that's going to happen more often than not um so no thank you for sharing um and and kind of for those that are interested in the Kaiser um Fellowship you know of course there is like Northern California there's Southern California could you give us a little more insight into you know is it one year is it 2-year cohort model rotation project um kind of just like the the you know minimum details about your fellowship program yeah absolutely so our fellowship is broken down by region like you said Northern California and Southern California uh Northern California is 12 months long with an optional additional rotation putting that at 18 months U but 12 months minimum Southern California is 24 months so both regions are cohort based and rotations based um but that's about the extent that I know about Northern California's fellowships I can speak more about Southern California um Southern California's administrative Fellowship is very very unique and I haven't seen another model like this so it's rotations based and like I said earlier kaiso Permanente has three different entities within within the organization and so the fellowship is designed to give you experiences in all three entities so for example my first rotation is within the Permanente a medical groups which is physician owned um it's the the Ambulatory Care um side of of K Permanente and so I'm learning about you know how how do we best work so that we can achieve one hour goals to Kaiser permanente's goals but also help Kaiser Foundation hospitals achieve their goals and Health Plan achieve their goals right um and then the second rotation is usually going to be at the region and you can select what you want to do so anything from strategy to to maybe even HR to uh uh Support Services anything like that um you can choose and then your third rotation is again up to you but um most people will will choose to go to the other side of the house that they haven't been to um such as health plan or or the hospital or the parent the Medical Group no that's incredible um digging a little bit deeper into uh the rotations what is mentorship like within um the fellowship itself um you know do you have a direct preceptor or do you have multiple and and kind of could you speak to the leaders at Kaiser um and when it comes to working with fellows yeah absolutely so I think the mentorship structure is uh it's very matrixed within within Kaiser permanent during the fellowship program so my primary preceptor is the chief administrative officer of my service area um and and the the CEO is the the head of the current County or the the service area is Ambulatory Care departments and then on the Fellowship side we have the program director who is within uh labor relations in HR we also have the program sponsors who is another CEO of a different service area and then a senior vice president of the hospital site um so it's a joint joint effort to keep this Fellowship going uh aside from that we also like I said it's a two-year program so um aside from that we have our seconde buddies to to help us out in any um situations that they may have come across and then we also have our alumni mentors that that were match with based on our interests and and based on their their abilities absolutely absolutely so then speaking kind of building off of that you know what are your interests so far in the fellowship what are projects that you have done that you're very proud of or want to highlight to our listeners sure um I will say that my interest I think lies within strategy for now um I I also have a side interest of um of Automation in AI just because of my past experiences I think that um it can not only improve patient care but it can also improve efficiencies within the the business um so I do have a side interest in that but my main interest would be within strategy at a big at a at a bigger level so region or national my key project right now it revolves around um program implementation within Cardiology of my service area so right now my service area doesn't have a kaisa foundation hospital where ambulatory only with a contracted hospital um another organization and so when we were thinking about capabilities within our organization um Cardiology right now doesn't have the ability to do stress testing nor does it have a lasus clinic for uh CHF management so my project is to implement a a lasis clinic and then three different forms of stress testing uh stress echo and then a treadmill stress and then uh nuclear medicine stress testing so um that's the bulk of my work right now um but right now we're actually very heavy into recruiting Seasons so that that takes a lot of as well yes absolutely I think the funniest part about being an administrative fellow is you basically start your fellowship and you're already looking for your replacement in the next cohort of fellows um and so kind of talking about that then um what is the dynamic like between you and your other co-fellows do besides recruitment are there projects that you know during your rotations you guys have the ability to work together or do people mostly go their separate ways um during the fellowship yeah so we have various various events where we come together um and and we're spread across all of Southern California so the furthest North is is where I'm at in Kern County Bakersfield and then the furthest East would be in Riverside where one of my co-fellows is and everything in between so um the ability for us to get together is not very often but but when we do get together it's so great um so recruitment will be together and then throughout the years we throughout the year we have various projects that we work on together we have our offsite our our team building kind of um activities um stuff like that where we get to come together that's incredible that I didn't realize Kaiser's fellows were so spread out and of course with um you know Southern California traffic not easy to make it from one location to the next no I totally understand that um you know one thing really stuck out to me you talked about the various mentors and sponsors within the fellowship program and I know a lot of the reason um you know graduate students or recent grads actually go into Fellowship is so they have one-on-one time with these incredible leaders in the health care space so would you you know in describing the fellowship um is it an open door policy do you feel that you have the ability to schedule time with not only you know the program director and the sponsor but also other senior leaders within um Kaiser's program and then to build off of that do you have the opportunity to also Shadow leaders that may not be in your rotation yeah um I think administrative fellows are viewed very favorably within this organization so when we reach out we're we're encouraged to reach out and network with different people within the the the organization and um I haven't had any bad experiences with that so i' I've been talking with various senior leaders just you know um trying to pick their brain about you know how they got to where they are and what kind of advice they would have for for somebody like like an administrator fellow um they some of them have been past fellows our our fellowship program has been around and so some of them are past fellow some of them are not but but they have close experiences with fellows and we do have the ability to work with different senior leaders within within our um our organization so for example I'm working very closely with the director of strategy here in K County um where I'm I'm shadowing her slash assisting her with some of the projects that she has going on um and so that wasn't originally supposed to be what I was what I was going to do but you know as I have a a heavy interest in strategy I've I've just been kind of doing it and and my preceptor is completely okay with it she she's encouraging it so um it's been a very good experience so far that's incredible I'm so happy to hear that and and how how wonderful that the Kaiser Fellowship has been around for 20 years you know um I think having gone to grad school in Southern California the notion was that fellowships are relatively new in Southern California they kind of originate on the East Coast so it's great to know that you know there's 20 years worth of fellows and leaders that have been developed through Kaiser's program um so thank you for sharing that um and now kind of talking about your experience you know um you've been in the fellowship you obviously went through the recruitment cycle you're now recruiting um the next set of fellows uh is there something specific you want to highlight that Kaiser looks for when recruiting fellows yeah so our our review system is is purposely designed so that it doesn't emphasize any one thing over another so we're looking for well-rounded candidates in all aspects so not just professionally but but personally who are you what do you like to do right we want to know that um I think that fit into the culture is very important to us and so um and there's a lot of things that you can you can tell through through an application through the the resume through the essays and stuff like that so I think um being genuine and and authentic is very important to guys Permanente yeah absolutely and I would say that's true for any Fellowship site that you're going to interview with um you know just being it seems cliche it comes off as like oh this is just generic advice be be yourself or be authentic but I think being yourself is the true tale of whether you're a good fit for a fellowship or not so um thank you for highlighting that um kind of my last question um for you is a two-part question I've been doing a lot of those today um but you know if you were to redo the fellowship cycle completely um what is one you would change and then finally what is one thing you want fellows or potential fellows to remember or like a key takeaway that you want to leave with them yeah um one thing that I would I I would change about my fellowship cycle is uh I wouldn't apply to five or I I wouldn't have applied to five or six organizations I would have really narrowed down what I wanted to do and what kind of organization I wanted to be a part of um you know I think there are two different strategies that people usually take with Fellowship applications one is you spray and pray that something sticks two is you apply to one or two that you really really want and I think I would have done the latter um just because you know it's a lot of time preparing those applications and writing essays and stuff like that right so um really knowing what you want and being being sure of your decision when you get that offer um that's I think that that would have been a major change I would have made um something that I would like to leave with perspective fellows is that a lot of people when they're applying to fellowships they get very discouraged if they don't progress within that round but um and you know they they have the mindset of I have to get a fellowship I have to get a fellowship but I don't think that's necessarily the case I think that if you have a master's degree in Health Administration or public health or or business administration whatever it may be you have such a high value to not just the fellowship but any organization that you can be a part of so not being too hard on yourself and not being too discouraged that you didn't advance in that process I I think that's that's the biggest takeaway that that you can have um fellowships will take a very small number of fellows out of a very large number of applications so the you know the the just the odds of being selected out of that is so incredibly low that you know you can't get discouraged from that yeah no I agree with that last statement so much I think Fellowship Recruitment and the entire process is such a roller coaster you can get acceptances rejections all in one day there's a lot of emotions and I always tell you know potential fellows no matter where they're applying is to give yourself Grace and also not get too distracted by the postings on LinkedIn because oftentimes some sites will offer before others and there's just a lot happening and so I agree with you completely um I I think there is value in applying to Fellowship so at least you can say you tried and you gave it your best shot um but absolutely agree with you there is a lot of value you bring as a candidate with a master's degree in a health administration or adjacent field and so I always tell people as well like don't get discouraged if the fellowship you know doesn't work out and and I think for those that end up with a fellowship I would say make the most of it you know because it is an incredibly unique opportunity for an early careerist um in this field absolutely absolutely agree well thank you so much for you know taking the time um to speak with us and you know bringing the Kaiser Fellowship to light I I feel like because Kaiser is such a unique Health System and the fellowship itself is so unique it's important to highlight all the various aspects um but I really enjoyed speaking with you and I know our listeners will have a great time um listening to this episode and learning more about the KP Fellowship yeah that was great thank you so much for having me here today yeah absolutely</p>