The WellStar Health Administrative Fellowship with Poojan Karnik

<p>[Music] hello everyone this is Cole from the American Journal of healthcare strategy and here with me is puan an a corporate administrative fellow with WellStar Health puan please introduce yourself hi so my name is puan like Cole said I use the she her pronouns I graduated with my m from UNCC um UNCC Chapel Hill and I am now doing my fellowship at WellStar I was also an intern at WellStar so they fortunately wanted me back and here I am and this is I'm probably in my I think eighth month of the fellowship this is a year-long fellowship and I couldn't have had a better time I'm still having a great time so that yeah knock on wood on that that's awesome that's we love it when our fellows tell us that they've had an excellent time at their program and then you also were talking we were talking a bit before this started about the Sports Experience at UNCC I I just just want to ask was UNCC and if you're not comfortable with sharing this that's okay was UNCC your first choice UNCC was it so I wasn't that big of a sports fan I didn't really know its presence I knew it was good but I had recently just moved to this Coast being the east coast and I just wanted to be close to my family because I had experienced being away from them during undergrad and I was just like I think I'm done I think I need to be closer to home closer to people who I'm familiar with and so UNCC being the top ranked program that it was it was really close to home and it also offered me enough scholarship to go and not feel bad about going out of state so I was very fortunate for that so un was definitely my first choice when I was applying also because Alabama I just hadn't I wasn't familiar with the state you know I I know of the state obviously but I wasn't I don't have family there I don't have any connections to the state was that your second choice Alabama yeah it's some it's a place that I considered but I because also was highly ranked and U was it UAB UAB is just had a video today on UAB excellent program yes and they're ranked number one and they're and I have a lot of friends from there now and they're literally so amazing so I I'm I wish I would have gone there but I'm really glad that I actually went to UNCC because it was perfect for me the drive was great and for me it was more the location because I've learned that education is somewhat similar everywhere um it's the people that Make It or Break It For Me um and I'm learning that a lot now too is I pick places and I pick my next steps based on people rather than you know how ranking wise how it does and how big the company might be Etc so you was I had the same experience me and my cousin my one of my cousins went to Harvard the other went to Penn and you know he's like oh don't go to Harvard you know don't don't go to Boston and so you know it seeing them talk about it is very interesting but it really does come down to the community that you kind of enjoy the most and I've experienced both Boston and Philadelphia very different communities and uh I think it's just whichever one you you kind want to be involved with I mean probably same thing with Alabama versus Charlotte I mean excellent communities for sure with wonderful students I've met students at both that have been excellent much like yourself and so one of the questions I guess initially where is your family are they in the Georgia area are they in North Carolina so before I was starting UNCC they had recently just moved to South Carolina um so they're on the coast they're in Georgetown and nice so it's far away to where I don't have to see them every day but it's close enough to where I could go and a quick drive one day trip that's excellent yeah that's really nice and so you you started off we were talking a bit before as well you you know at Berkeley you did your molecular inel biology you know and you did a lot of work as well in terms of you know the course facilitator in healthy sexuality the sexual health education program yeah the clinic lead you know you were really on on a role uh for a pread you know you were probably you heading towards the top being a top candidate which is excellent and then you chose to not go to medical school why is that what made you have that change so it kind of hit me all different ways so first it hit me of like soul searching wise is do I really want to continue education for that long um I don't think I had the endurance to keep going that you know a lot of Med students need to have I definitely think I could have made it but I just don't think that I would have been happy and then secondly it was the familial bond that I needed I always want to have that time and energy for my family and my permanent relationships rather than my work and so that was another thing and lastly I was really good at management and you know it through these experiences especially the clinic lead that I was placed into my original jobs started as like a clinic I was I was basically giving care and HIV testing and all of these different things and then I got roped into being like the clinic lead basically the supervisor of everybody and my peers and that was really fruitful I really like doing the backend work instead of you know the Frontline work and I never realized that I would enjoy it so much I've had a lot of management opportunities with like my family business and whatnot but it's never something something that I took seriously because I never knew it existed and I think I was telling you a little bit before I'm an immigrant so there's it was very limited availability for me I was always like okay you can either be engineer a doctor or a lawyer and I didn't realize that there was such thing as healthcare administration out there until I graduated from Berkeley and I had just really said no I am not going to medical school but then I was like what else am I going to do I can't just sit around you know I have be doing something because that's just the person I am I'm all constantly go go go so that's when I started Googling it's like I I think I literally Googled healthc care jobs but not doctor and that's great I didn't want to be a nurse I don't think I was capable of giving that level of care um nurses are cut from a whole different cloth I just kudos to them but I don't think I could do that and healthcare administration popped up with all the fil botus and all the text and whatnot and I was like hm what is that so I did a little bit of searching again Google searching I don't have any people at this point that I've met and that's how I fell in love with this in the curriculum is you're learning about policy you're learning about public health and you're learning about the hospital system and how care is given you're just not giving the care and you're take you're still taking care of people but you're taking care of the people who are giving care to patients yes and so that's something that really drew me in is I want to do something so worthwhile that I'm I feel like I'm contributing to society in some way but I also loved that I could so I use this analogy is with physician if I were to be a physician I would have a one-on-one contact with someone and change their lives in that way but being in healthcare administration I think I'm doing a higher level work where I'm changing a lot of people's lives at once or at least I would be after you know being in the industry for a bit and that felt really good that really hit my morals and my values and I just had to and so that it felt like a little bit of calling if I may but that's what drew me into healthcare administration after you know the trajectory of pred I was like um not for me but this new found you know I love Premed I love Healthcare and I love management and so this was like a good marrying of the two it's really that micro versus macro I mean you know it's the Physicians are so intelligent and so brilliant that they can focus on that granularity of each IND and each individual metric of that person and then you have the other the other end of that spectrum that macro where we're looking at really society and systems yes and I've said this in almost every one of these interviews I've done and it's that you know I one of the reasons I switched being honest is that I was not smart enough to handle some of these courses and so I would put myself down and say oh I'm not as smart as these doctors but what was interesting is that when I worked with some of my med school friends who ended up going to med school and they were looking at doing like an MD MBA they struggled with some of the business courses Y and so it's just finding what we're good at and that's a lot you know it's pre exactly yes and it's just it's incredible and and I think this new generation you might be perceiving this yourself is that there's been back in in the day you know 40 50 years ago there was these for-profit hospitals that would really abuse their Physicians and it gave administrators a bad name but with this new generation it seems like the med students and the mha candidates are much more they're much less at odds with each other they're they're having better relationships have you found in your fellowship and in your experience that you've been able to cultivate good relationships with clinical staff yeah so I haven't directly been on the front line L with a doctor or shadowing them but I have worked with a lot of MDS who are now in administrative roles and so that might be a little bit of bias but they're one of you know the sweetest people that I've met they're so I think it's like a MD thing where you have to explain everything in depth and I appreciate that so much because as a patient if someone was doing that to me I would love that but also working with them it's like it's such great great communication that they already have and I have rarely and I say rarely with like maybe 1% margin that might have felt bad in communication like communicating with a physician but they have always been so accepting and I think it's also on the part of the administrator and how we're talking um you can't talk with any person whether that's an MD a nurse a fellow peer whoever it is when you're talking to someone you need to talk to them as a peer not someone that you're talking to or talking about you're talking with them and approaching the conversation very respectfully even if it's a conversation that might be like oh we need to meet some statistics that we haven't been or quality metric or budget whatever the topic is that might be difficult I think it's the way you chat with someone and you show them like no I respect you as a person and I would hope that you respect me as a person this is a problem that is not us this is a problem that's the outside that we're trying to solv together and so when and I think I've been noticing that and I've always seen that actually I've never seen someone who's like oh why do you why do you not like me or you just hate me you're just giving me direction and that's not the case but sometimes you do also have to have thick skin because you don't know what the other person's going through and why they might be saying what they're saying yep and so understanding that and asking those questions like oh why is that what's happening can I help I think that's the biggest thing it's like what can I do to help is there any way that I can jump in and take something off your plate because they have five million other patients that they need to be seeing so if there's something that I can take off their plate and work in tandem with them instead of against them I think relationships are just easily made I've never excellent yeah I've not had a difficult time with that at all I was speaking with the CEO of a little while ago and and it he he did similar things about you know it's really coming at people with that level of respect and understanding of explaining to them like you know this is and you know for Physicians it's a little bit easier because they understand the health system but you know there are some people who didn't necessarily want like a job in a hospital like some of our our house staff which are so dedicated and hardworking you know they had experience in other Industries before coming on one of the interview that we're having in a few weeks was working in retail for many years and he got really good at retail management and then he came on to healthcare and he's done really well here but I think it's it can be challenging sometimes to give individuals with different background that sense of purpose that we have in healthc care you know the CEO of pan he does really good at that he gives a speech to the new employees he tries to really show them you know what we're doing as an organization what has WellStar done when bringing you on to give you the underlying ideas of why they do what they do so I'm going to ask a clarifying question so I understand correctly you're asking me like what has WellStar shown me about their values and made me understand what they're what this organization is about that exactly yes perfect okay so I think the biggest thing is everybody that I talk to before accepting the fellowship especially my current preceptor even during my intern ship were just so authentic and everything they said it was never like a misalignment and so it made me trust them and everything that I've noticed WellStar does so far as an organization and individuals of the organization is all values driven where I think everybody embodies those values that we have of serving with compassion every voice should be heard and just through and through every single time and I feel so accepted and you talked about sense of purpose and I've never felt like WellStar has shared that sense of purpose as in told me what my purpose should be it was always they've just accepted what my purpose is so they have allowed me to set my purpose and given me the space to talk about it and been like we accept you and I think I couldn't have asked for a better organization and that's something that Drew me to WellStar in my internship even now and I continue to speak about this because you know a lot of organizations everyone has their ups and downs but that like you said that sense of purpose needs to be driven by the top and I think and then trickled down to everyone else but I think at WellStar not only does that happen but it also goes the opposite way and I really like that we meet in the middle there's no true hierarchy or any telling people what to do it's just accepting people the way they are and I really I really like that you know right now in this day and age it's things are changing so fast people are growing so fast organizations are multiplying and I think having that sense of belonging and that sense of purpose be people's individuality is what really makes the organization shine and I think it's going to go a long way for wallstar it's so I I want to ask about wallstar as well because it's your your resume is unique in the way that you are not necessarily an administrative fellow at a hospital right you are a corporate administrative fellow so can you kind of explain to us what that is and what the differences are yeah so in general and this is a great question but wstar has four different tracks in my cohort at least I'm on the corporate track I have peers who are in the Ambulatory Care care track and then also service lines which are like our departments like neurology cardio Etc and we have operations track who was deployed at a hospital and they're just engrossed with the day-to-day with the corporate track we're kind of just an umbrella track where we can fit into any Lane any part and that's what drew me is first I was like oh I really really want operations you know that's my dream that's my goals I love it because I never knew that there was anything else and then corporate track is more it was more fast and wide and it gave you a good snapshot of system level thinking so wstar has multiple different hospitals and marrying all of them together because all of their markets are different um so how do we come up with strategies that are systemwide but for beneficial for all hospitals so that that level of thinking is what the corporate track instills and for me I've had a lot of experience you know with the typical Hospital day-to-day I could go to our Flagship hospital and do some projects there but it also gives me experience with like law you know I've never been on the legal side of things and I don't have a law degree nor would I want a law degree at least now um but I was still able to do projects there and I was able to do projects in HR I was able to do projects in very Niche parts of healthcare that you wouldn't think exists and it was really great and I think I made a really good choice I also made this choice because of my preceptor I will not lie like I told you I'm very relationship driven and me and him had a instant connection even in the internship and he has mentored me and sponsored me in such a way where I knew I was going to be in good hands if I was he was my preceptor and so when he offered me that job I had to say yes and and I was fortunate enough to have that and fortunate enough to be in the corporate track because I was a little unsure and I think it's a great track for people who might be unsure and don't know exactly which area of the Health Care System they want to fall into so they can try a little bit of everything in this track if that answers or helps that answers and that makes a lot of sense it actually answers some of the other questions I was going to ask we're gonna have to go back a little bit further and then talk about that pit pivotal moment when you got the internship because it seems like you had that connection in the internship and that's what led you to go there a lot of people have this hard time choosing where to go for their Fellowship but it seems like that decision was a bit easier for you so what was it like choosing the internship what led you to to do that because that was the pivotal moment kind of in your your career you could say it sure was and I think so I'm trying to put myself back a couple of years um internships are acquired by UNCC so um we have a way where a lot of companies will reach out to UNCC and UNCC will send it out as like a blast to all of their students of these companies are interested and we can put in our application where we'd like so that's how it started WellStar was a newer one um in my previous cohort we had two of UNC students who were interns at WellStar and one of them I had heard accepted a position for Fellowship there and so I was like oh okay so one thing was I didn't really know much about wallstar at the time because I hadn't done my research and so when this came through I was doing some research about WellStar and I was like okay one not only do they hire their interns they're not just taking an intern just to get one they're actually cultivating a Workforce for them and so that gave me a lot of you know security and they might want me back and that was really great and secondly they were one of the largest systems in Georgia like they were just hitting all the checkpoints they allowed me a lot of flexibility they didn't have such a strict program of you know week one you're going to do this week two you're going to do this they let you do it at your own pace so I really like that and the next thing was just trusting my director so Jeffrey Sims who's the director at UNC he he spoke very highly of Andrew he spoke very highly of WellStar and you know at one point I just trusted him I was like I let's see where this goes submitted my application really fortunate to get an interview talked on the phone or it was a virtual interview not on the phone but it was a virtual interview and you know if meant so much to me that in the interview was not just a previous fell but it was Andrew there who runs the entire internship but not only that he's a chief of staff of WellStar you know and for him to be present at my interview for an internship meant a lot to me and it showed that you know not only do they care about me as a person regardless of what job I'm applying for but I'm I'm already receiving the respect you know that I might not have deserved at that point because I hadn't proven myself but I'm really I had this notion I don't know what it was I was like oh they're going to be just like any other company but no he showed up he was talking to me and it wasn't like this oh I'm Chief of Staff he was so genuine and I was like you know if the chief of staff is like this I can only imagine how everyone else is like especially at a system so large that's that's really impactful exactly and so that's exactly what did it for me and I was like you know what but even if it's not the greatest decision it's only for 10 weeks so we'll see how it is and so I ended up accepting the role and it was fantastic and at the time I was in operation so I was at a hospital cob hospital and I think that was really great because I wasn't overwhelmed I had a smaller team that I was working with at the hospital not that that Hospital's small at all it's a 328 beds I want to say if I'm not forgetting it's pretty good yeah and so it's a mediumsized hospital and my preceptor who's the president who was the president at the time he was amazing and not only did he allow me to grow but he also put he he was a sponsor for me and he mentored me and so I couldn't have asked for a better internship experience so I'll leave I'll leave you with one last question because we're trying to keep it under 20 minutes and I could just talk to you for like hours yeah this is I love hearing all this it and it's interesting too because you know we're I mostly talk to people in the Northeast and I'm starting to move into the South and so UAB I I met with them and their program was excellent their Fellowship is excellent so I love hearing about this as well uh in in the Georgia area so this seems like the south is a real region we need to focus on but I want you know you to zoom out for a minute and just to give one last piece of advice what should other Fellowship programs do to be as good as and not just Fellowship internship to be as good as experienced what is just one thing you think because there's so many aspects you mentioned but what's been the biggest impact valuing my individuality and I think and not having me fit into this fellow mold I think wallstar has done a great job with that and they really forc me to step out and be my authentic self because I always want to ask these questions of okay so what was done in the past you know what did someone else do and my pre is always like figure it out do what you need to do and at first I was like I don't know what to do and it was a little frustrating but then it has taught me and it's let me grow and I think with other Fellowship programs it will really do the organization wonders when you let someone flourish like that and when you let someone just find their path and grow I'm not saying let them loose and let them do whatever they'd like definitely have some R some boundaries but giving them a little more ownership was something that really mattered to me do you think that would solve a lot of the diversity problems programs have it seems like I've heard from some fellows that they felt uncomfortable because all of the fellow applicants were very different than them they were all kind of the same people from the same schools or they were all the same race or they were all the same gender and then they were the odd one out do you think if we appreciate individuality more that that would solve some of the diversity issues you know how how has it been there has it been a diverse you know accepting experience cool you're hitting this right on the mark So my biggest reason was the person before me was exactly like me I'm not saying demographically but she was a woman of color very strong established and I loved it and my cohort if you see we're all women of color who came from everywhere else and it when you see at least when I see us standing in a room I think it gives me so much more like it makes me stand up a little taller and I think that might be it I can't say but for me it has made a huge difference that's incredible to be valued with all of my intersectionalities and all of my you know whatever you want to call I I can't of the word but yes in short yes it I think it would help a lot of folks come out of their shell and really understand that they are accepted that's excellent advice thank you so much for sharing that and yeah thank you so much for coming on I'm so glad you've had a great experience with your program and thanks for sharing that with our audience thanks for having me and giving me this platform to talk about how wonderful it's been of course of course we couldn't do it without you and we want other fellows to to look at that program and you know hopefully flood them with applications so yes absolutely we would love to have that and I think wallstar would be fortunate to have all of these applicants as well it's a two-way street</p>